This is a read only archive of pad.okfn.org. See the shutdown announcement for details.

mw-proposed-idea
Agenda 21/7


Actions & agreements:
    
  1. Scotty fo estimate costs for Golden Hill & email - Working to 2-3 volunteers £150 steel, £50 consumables, £100 fuel, will see if OK with them. Can you ask them when they can do as well?  give them the link??
  2. Scotty & Sonia to update Greentech website
  3. Sam to do test site & share URL before publishing maybe using theme: http://athens.unmonastery.org/
  4. Everyone to discuss toolkit at https://pad.okfn.org/p/mw-existing_tools and scotty and sonia to price up
  5. Trailer requirements: Rated for 2.5 tonne or lower (May be possible to downrate by removing leaf spring)
  6. Sam to ask if we can borrow box to stick on flatbed as temp solution
  7. Everyone mark availability on framadate: https://framadate.org/cnnj9l4ozcmkasjx     admin link to edit that if required https://framadate.org/cnnj9l4ozcmkasjxlypqy466/admin
  8. Policy for inviting new people is that the existing members agree that they can join
  9. Darren to email Daniel from Solar Flower
  10. Darren to email LWA
  11. Becs and Sonia to continue with Lush application


A workshop based in a trailer to be mobile and able to visit sites without such a facility to do workshops/projects/commisions/education/demonstration and general fabrication of ifrustructure and tools geared towards the transition to a sustainable future.

We will provide a broad subset of tools for metalwork, electrics & woodwork. Have it's own power supply and comms built in.

Can be hired out as is, or with skilled people to take on commissions.


Identity

An identity will be an important facet to communicate to the public a vision of what we're. 

I'd really like to keep it to four syllables or less. Any more & I think it will be a mouthful. I really like the 'toolbox' from Sonya's suggestion. It's nice and descriptive, it already implies mobile, as all toolboxes are mobile. It's self effacing, 'just our little toolbox'  (Sam) 

==My favorite name is:
Travelling toolbox - bex 2nd choice although I think it's a it more vague -sb 2nd choice Sam why not?2nd sonia  we have a winner????it is a bit blah  oh maybe we dont????Ha  Ha
Nomad toolbox -sb less sylables than the others I like, seems more like a name
Nomadic Toolbox - sonia
Pop-up toolbox  (sam  ++ Pop ups are  hench, people get what a 'pop up' is. Toolbox is self explainatory it doeant really pop up though does it? (it could pop out?) 


== Names we could all live with






== Names someone has a reasoned objection to


I have what is entirely possibly an irrational dislike of using migrant and nomadic - if I had to articulate it, it would be around appropriating identities of people/groups who are actually nomadic and feels a bit rmonatnicising . But mainly I think a bit irrational... (Some of us are nomadic - if living on wheels and moving about a bit counts....)



After some thought, I've gone off the Fablab, Agrilab, Mobile Workshop type names and think they are either a bit greenwash buzwordish or too broad, and that perhaps it might be better to create more of an identity for it.  Something along the lines of what "Sea Shepherd" is to the nautical world.  I'm still into descriptive & buzzwordish - helps with funding (Sam)

Activities for the Lush project (in case people haven't read what we're doing on the application form)
Activity Set1: 
What - construction of mobile workshop 
Who  - all core group members 
Outcome – creation of mobile workshop; skill-share and increase individual capacity of Greentech members; 
Timescale: October-January 2016
 
Activity Set 2: 
What: Visit first phase of projects to deliver on-site training and fabrication: Greengrow (adaptation of farm machinery);  biochar producing woodfired stoves, 12V electrics, construction of infrastructure, building renewable power generation equipment
Timescale: February / October-May / onwards 2016
Outcome - to spread technical knowledge, to improve standards of work/living, to make projects more sustainable, to make projects more viable

Activity Set 3– 
What: Visit gatherings and events to provide power, deliver demonstrations and training activities 
Where: Reclaim the Fields; Farm Hack Ireland; LWA; other project we have been invited to.
Outcome: To inspire people to take a more active role in technology, to educate, to spread knowledge on sustainability and technique
    
Activity Set 4 – delivering training events to community projects, land occupations etc etc
– welding; fabrication; sustainable energy systems…
When – February 2016 onwards
Where – 
Outcome - 


Aims & Objective ideas

To create tools that aid users to work towards a more sustainable lifestyle/occupation.
To reduce carbon emmissions through our builds and services.
To empower others in the construction of their own tools and infrastructure.
To build a portfolio of tools to showcase at appropriate summer gatherings in 2016

Just a breif start, might help to work out what we wanna be doing with it and how we share out the resource between us and be inclusive of each others ideas.




Constitution and Decision Making Process
[Sonia] We have discussed defining a membership (i.e. saying who is part of the group) and bi-weekly [do we mean bi-weekly, or do we mean fortnightly? I certainly haven't got time for regular bi-weekly meetings] online meetings to make decisions by consensus. Scotty suggested using Greentech's constitution as a basis http://www.greentechuk.org/wiki/view/Constitution . I am happy with this, what are people's thoughts

[Gonzo]I like the greentech constitution, though it might have to change if we go incorporated. Small tweaks would possibly be useful. I think this too

 [Sonia]   Summary
"We are a group of people interested in technology and its relation to the environment and social change. Between us we have many years of experience in engineering, fabrication and construction as well as working in environmenal and social change movements.
We have come together with the idea of building a mobile workshop capable of the following:

Which could be used for the following type of projets:

Also attending events and gatherings, running workshops, promoting the project and projects that it supports

I've tried to work this up into some text we might use as the basis of a pitch/proposal. Emailed it round the list too [beckx]: [tried to embed links to farmhack and l'atalier paysan where they're mentioned, but don't seem to have pulled this off]
    
Name: XXXX 
Fablab /Agrilab?/Peasant Workshop?/Greentech Farmlab?/ Greentech Mobile Fab Unit
 
Summary
We are a group of people interested in technology and its relation to the environment and the way it shapes society. Between us we have many years of experience in agriculture, engineering, fabrication and construction as well as working in environmental and social change movements (community projects?). Motivated by a desire to see the changes we want to happen, and inspired by the principles of Farm Hack http://farmhack.org and the work of l’atelier paysan http://www.latelierpaysan.org/, we have come together with the idea of building a mobile workshop. This trailer-mounted workshop will bring power, tools and skills to deliver training and workshops, give demonstrations and build equipment for farms, camps and social and educational projects.  We believe that people should be involved in the process of designing and building the technologies that they require and we aim to facilitate and inspire people to do so.  We believe that technologies should be developed with a focus on doing a job well while not causing harm rather than looking primarily at how to make the most profit.
 
The workshop will carry a broad subset of tools for metalwork, electrics and woodwork. It will have its own renewable power supply and be equipped with its own communications and computers. XXXX aims to make the workshop available for groups and individuals involved in sustainable land based projects, radical social change (working towards a better society?) and education. The workshop will also be taken to events and gatherings, in order to run workshops, promote its work and that of any projects it supports.
 
The workshop can be utilised for the training & education or production of tools and infrastucture needed to carry out sustainable endeavours, dependant on available expertise. Discounted hire rate will be available to non-profit organisations working towards sustainability. Individuals on a low income may also apply for a concessionary rate.



Is it tied to Land Workers Allience / growing/farming projects?? 

[Darren]- a lot of people apparently think it should not be-  although, I think there are some strengths from having this to some degree...   I guess we can tell the story from this (at least for crowd funding purposes- possibly at other times) perspective but make clear what kind of other stuff it will do (when we have a good understanding & explaination written up)

[Sonia] In what sense tied? I think it should be a seperate entity but should use networks such as LWA, Radical Routes, Reclaim the Fields etc to spread the word


I strongly dislike the idea of it being owned or tied to LWA or other networks in an ownership/part of existing campaign or group kind of way. This project should be independent and flexible as far as I'm concerned. Connecting it with another entity, especially one with an existing political agenda automatically ties it to the political and practical goals that group/ campaign. This takes away our freedom as members to decide our own agenda and goals to quite some extent.  Apart from that: what Sonia said.[gonzo][agree -sb]
I agree with Sonia and Gonzo - it should be a separate body (see my comments below), but networked into the resilient agriculture etc movements, to maximise use, visibility etc. [beckx]

Ownership

The trailer will be owned by;

I, personally don't believe in ownership but in personal responsibility for the common good of society governed by the biocapacity of the planet. I would like to see this workshop accessable to the broadest subset of expertise knowledgeble of the tools available with the ability  to transfer that knowledge to others through workshops and skillshares  or demonstrations.  So far that broad subset of people is us and what tools we have.  For us to move beyond that there must be a framework of  trust and internal development whilst actively seeking new nodes of expertise.  I believe we can find these on the the way and with enough  recognition of our actions, those people may gravitate towards us.

An individual?

The people on the email list as a voluntary (unincorporated?) associaion?

Some CIC (community interest company) we set up?

Some Co-op we set up?

Landworkers Alliance?

I think we should use some sort of workers' co-op (could be greentech?) [Sonia] < I think this works for me (would need some more details about Greentech - but I trust the 2/3rds of old Greentechians that I know and the last 1/3rd appears very generous/hjresonable),  but I'm open to other ideas also [Darren}
Co- op works for me, seems the best and fairest option. greentech still exists so we could mould it to our needs[gonzo]
Greentech seems the most sensible option to me - advantages of existing legal structure, bank account, some track record of projects (all good from a funding perspective); sound politically and seems like a natural place for this kind of thing to sit [beckx]

{sonia] What about a community interest company? Greentech is not currently incorporated, we could make it a CIC reletively easily and cheaply???
Sam was talking about this at barn camp...
Wondering about if it may be best/simplest/cheapest to stay unincorporated to begin (see insurance discussion below) and later incorporate if/when it feels appropriate 

Insurance? 

Will it be insured against theft? Fire? I think it's a good idea to protect against theft, especially if it might be left at random farms, since GT got bitten before.

Will it have public liability insurance?

Will host locations have to provide their own insurance?

Is insurance necessary for trailers that are being used commercially? can we say we're not using it commercially?
Insurance is not necessary but there is the issue of fire / theft / someone getting hurt and suing - that does require some consideration.

[Daz]Personally I like to avoid non-compulsory insurance - mainly because I dislike the insurance industry - obviously there are possible moral arguments for having insurance - what happens when that angle grinder we refusrbished sheds its disk which goes through Tony and  impales Lisas head killing them both and leaving their kids starving on the street without parents???   

I think society/the insurance industry over plays this kind of stuff - effectively monetising peoples fear/insecurity - we have social security(paid by all who work) + people in our society who care and will help - but obviously this is not quite a black and white issue either way......  and if we got into doing say - educational stuff in schools may well find that we will need some kind of insurance.

[Sonia] I say we avoid insurance for now and maybe look into public liabilty insurance if necessary for specific things we want to do as and when. Although... I doubt we would ever actually get a pay out considering how strict insurance companies regulations are

A secure yard/lockup would void the theft problem to some extent, especially if somebody lived there. Fire is something we should be able to avoid if we do our electrics properly and don't behave like complete fools. Even I have never managed to burn anything down by accident. Public liability will become necessary if we want o do education or festivals.  

If we exist as a legal entiry (either via greentech or a new body) and were running anything with people who were not members [if it were a co-op] legally we would need public liability insurance. It's shit, but it is' none negotiable. But this is something to think about when we're ask for funding/put in for a grant - factoring it in from the beginning, rather than it coming as a nasty surprise when we don't have any more money is probably the way to make it as painless as possible.
Could be a reason not to incorporate - at least ot begin with....  I guess we need to get some insurance quotes... anyone up for having a look??? (its now on the to do list - with some ideas-down the bottom of page at https://pad.okfn.org/p/mobile-workshop  ) Are you sure it is a legal requirement for all incorporated organisations (those that have been registered witht he appropriate registrar and are recognised in law as a legal person) to have insurance (and under which circumstances)?  I know most incorporated organisations would have this, as many?/most? individual traders do - but it is not a legal requirement for sole traders (and I'm pretty sure would be the same for partnerships and would imagine with unincorporated associations) even when doing jobs with a noticable risk of seriously damaging people or property (ie tree surgeons)

So far as an unincorporated corporation we've blagged ourselves under other orgainsations Public Liability insurance, but it did restrict us sometimes for what we wanted to do. Public Liability is expensive, I think the cheapest quote we got was £800, there are cheaper options out there, say if you are solely in the Education sector, but again these models are restrictive. Festivals, Schools, Councils, Transition Groups, etc. often have their own PLI and its a case of whether we can sweet talk whoever into slipping us under it, generally it depends how keen they are and if they trust us. [sb]



Hire costs

Cost price hire cost available to: Landworkers alliance members? Some other people?

Discounted hire rate will be available to non-profit organisations working towards sustainability? 

Commerical rate will be charged to for profit organisations?

 [D] I'd like to think we can retain the ability to be flexible (i.e. being able to 'help' a non-LWA commercial permaculture smallholder vs. some LWA member is financially comfortable + has won generous grant funding for an alt-energy project and wants to use the workshop) but we can work out some guidelines to give ourselves and others an idea...

[Sonia] I agree with D about flexibilty.  People should pay what (and if) they think they can afford. I don't think we should have special rates for LWA members.

Really don't see why the LWA should get special treatment. If we want to do it for cost for supportworthy projects that's cool but I don't see how LWA members should get a blanket free ride. I reckon if anyone gets to use it for cost by proxy it would be co-op members. Apart from that a sliding scale depending on financial  situation and supportworthyness of the relevant group/individual seems the fairest approach. Agree- sb
Maybe if the LWA had a bit of spare money and was able to give some financial support to the project then it could be reciprocated by LWA members getting a discount? [beckx]

Workshop costs?

In addition to hiring the 'stuff' we can also provide facilitated workshops?

People facilitiating the workshops will be paid? Expenses? A pittiance? A reasonable fee?
Again I think flexability - obviously it would be nice if people could get paid - even make a livelihood by driving &/or facilitating use of the workshop but I worry a focus on this will mean we end up doing a lot of 'crap' work chasing the money...   
[dream mode on]   we could do regular crowdfunding and win enough money to support a number of mobile workshops, and their 'operators' + some yard/lock up storage to keep everything in  [dream mode off] 

[alternative dream mode on]I guess if we did lots of (free/cheap) work for growers/small scale forestry we could reasonably expect a fair amount of vegetables + timber + the odd barn/corner of field where we can park stuff (maybe some of us more nomadic types could stay for a bit every now and then???)  + maybe bits of paid work when they have it (even if its helping out/working not using the workshop.[alternative dream mode off]

What Darren said.In addition I reckon to some extent what somebody holding a workshop gets paid is within reason down to the individual holding the workshop. I like dreammode.[gonzo]
I'm going to visit the Atelier Paysan guys this weekend (25th-29th June) - will speak to them some more about their funding/payment models if that's useful? beckx

Maintainance

The equipment will be maintained & serviced by? Using money from? at x location?

[Sonia] Presumably members of the co-op will do the servicin. 

Co-op members should service I think. Location is to be confirmed if I remember the online meeting y.[gonzo]